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Elec-Trak Tips and Tricks on How to Keep Your GE Electric Tractor HappyFor general information about these amazing machines take a look at http://www.elec-trak.org There exists a great mailing list for topics pertaining to elec-trak tractors, the list archive is available at http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/, and at the following location are some instructions on how to sign up for the list: https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak. This page intents to capture some of the knowledge traded on this list that is especially helpful in diagnosing and repairing problems of GE Elec-Traks. If the information was originally posted to the elec-trak list then the date of this post and the originator is referenced, this allows one to search the archives of the list to read the original post. If you are looking for a specific topic and don't want to scroll through the whole document you may use your browser's search/find function to locate content via keywords. This page may be directly editied by members of the elec-trak community. To do so simply click on the web-editor link at the bottom right of the page. The page's content will come up in a text editor box. You can simply add your piece of information at the appropriate spot. Instructions on how to achieve some formating is provided at the bottom of the editing page. By sending a mail to the mailing list you can inform others of the information you ented here. If there are questions you may email me at mlorch (at) vt (dot) edu. Hope this turns out to be useful. Markus P.S. Harold Zimmerman has started to make ET parts available to the community, the most recent price list that I have can be found here: http://markus.lorch.net/et/cleanpower/ Content OrganizationThe page is designed around the following four topics, please add your information at the appropriate location. You do so by opening this page in the web editor (bottom right), finding a location that fits your topic, adding a heading (preceeded by an exclamation mark), and then your text. When done editing click the "save" button below the editor box. NEVER USE THE BACK ARROW of your browser while editing this page.
1. Mechanical TopicsBrakesSteve Sawtelle found the following link to go-kart brakes thatmay be adaptable to the ETs: http://www.jackssmallengines.com/gokartbrake.cfm On 2005-02-14 Steve wrote: "I used this on the E12S. Only had to do a little grinding on the casting to get it to fit flat. Otherwise it is a direct fit and look replacement. Additional brake pucks are sold as well (next item on the web page). And the price is right...." Mower Blades (large frame, front mount)Harold ZimmermannWheel Horse C-185 and B-145 both used the identical blades that [the] E20 does. Wheel Horse part # is 515903. {Toro bought out Wheel Horse and] When they look up Wheel Horse model numbers they often don't use the number on the hood, but rather there is another number on the ID plate. The number for the C-185 is 1-0700 and the number for it's mower deck is 5-1700. Mike Wallace If you want to try the Gator Blades, you need to buy their part number 90-414. It's a 14 1/2" blade, but it's wider and thicker (and therefore heavier) than our original Elec-Trak blades. It also has a 5/8" center hole and you'll need to make some spacers to go from the 5/8'' hole down to 5/16'' for our bolts. You can find lots of blades with a 3/8" hole, but that's too big for the 5/16" bolt and way too difficult to make a bushing to fit. I bought three of these Gator blades, but have yet to actually use them as I'm still not done with my Alltrax conversion of a W/H C-185. The actual hole size was closer to .632" instead of the advertised 5/8" (.625") and the thickness was about .211" versus the advertised .203". I had a buddy make several spacers on a lathe to fit these blades to the following dimensions:
Mower Blades for mid mountHarold Zimmermann has them! See price list at the top of this page.2. Electrical TopicsMower Motors SpecsMarkus found the following on the web:The motors are rated 36V, 3600rpm, 3/4 HP. 4.5" diameter, 8.75" long including 7/8" x 7/8" shaft with keyway. Also has 5/6" threaded hole in shaft end for mounting a hub and blade. 6" mounting flange. Apparently new motors are available from: http://www.kansaswindpower.net/motors.htm Mower Motor Brushes (incl. bearings and other motor details)Michael DeLiso contributed (2004-08-28):Note: The motor part numbers below are not on the mower motors. And they do not mean anything to anyone outside of the Electrak people. The 4.25 inch diameter mower motors were made in 6 different models with 5 part numbers. The part numbers are not on the motors, it becomes a guessing game. A fast check with a tape measure shows I have at least 3 different motors. The 158C9011P1 motor uses a different brush. The rest are all the same. The 541C971P1 motor came in 2 different magnet heights 2 inch and 2.32 inch. All 6 models use the same shaft end and commutator end bearings. (Motor bearings are the same.) SKF 6205 and SKF 6203 both double shielded and other equals. There are 5 different length tie bolts that hold the 6 motor types together. All the tie bolts are 1/4 - 20 thread, the head is counter sunk but all thread works when needed. The 2 versions of the 541C971P1 motor use the same bolt. The shaft end bell on 5 of the 6 motor types is the same part. The 2.32 inch magnet version of the 541C971P1 is different. The commutator end bell on 5 of the 6 motor types is the same part. The commutator end bell on the 158C9011P1 is different. There are 3 different types of circuit breakers on the 4.25 inch motors. The 2 types of 541C971P1 and the 158C9017P1 use the same circuit breaker. The mid-mower on the E-8 and E-10 used the same 26AH36 mower deck, with 155C8086P1 motors. One of it's differences is the length of the penetration into the mower deck. The mounting flange to blade distance is different. Mower Motors GE #155C8075P1, 155C8086P1, 158C9017P1, and 541C971P1 ( 4.25 dia. motor both versions) use the same brush 244A7329P7. Wheelhorse called this brush a # 519559 Repco part number REP622 brush. (has 610 stamped in brush, no idea what it means.) width 0.8750" length 0.8750" thick 0.2969" Graphite listed as the material. http://www.repcoinc.com Repco Inc. 6 Eves Dr, Marlton NJ 08053 Scott Tussey 1-800-822-9190 42 inch Mower Model 26AA42MA heavy duty model uses, a 4.25 inch Mower motor GE # 158C9011P1, uses brush number 244A7329P29. Wheelhorse called this brush a # 519579 The 3.375 dia motor GE # 211A3435G1 on the 26AA42 mower deck uses a brush # 243A4736P5 and by my pictures the brush pigtail is spot welded to a connection stud. Might have to solder on a new brush pigtail to the stud. Has the round bell on shaft end. Wheelhorse called this brush a # 518442 Mower Motor Brushes for 3 3/8" dia motorsRalph Vogan contributed (2004-09-01):I found a source for brushes to fit the 3 3/8" diameter mower motors but they need to be fitted. The brushes are 7/8" long and have to be cut down to 5/8" to fit in the motor. I cut them with a hacksaw then filed them flat and square. The wire has to be cut to lenght the soldered to the carrage bolt head. You can't buy them already attached to the bolts. Take the bolts out of the end cap before soldering so you don't melt the insulator. The source is: www.americanelectricmotor.com Ask for brush #57. They are about $3.60 each plus shipping. Drive Motor Brushes (incl. tiller and snow-thrower motor)Michael DeLiso contributed (2004-08-28):The same things noted for the mower motors apply for the drive motors as well, the part numbers in the books mean nothing to the real world. The drive motor number is on aluminium and red paint tag on the motor. That tag number means something to a good rewind or repair shop. I added the Avco New Idea stuff to the list. It is interesting that the permanent magnet motor info was complete and the info on the EGT-150 and EGT-200 is missing, probably used GE motor. The EGT-80, 100, 120 all use the same brush. Probably the same as the E-8 and E10. But I have to take a motor apart to ID the brush. Makes me think GE did not built the PM motors. E-15 tractor and some E-12 S models Model number 26AE15AA uses motor # 5BCY56RA6 Model number 26AE15CA uses motor # 5BCY56RA6 Electrak motor number 163B9862P1 Repco brush number REP360W 1/2 by 5/8 by 1 7/16 long, carbon graphite. EGT-150 Avco New Idea motor number 120447 E-12 , E-12M tractor Electrak motor number 178B8034P1 Model number 26AE12HA uses motor # 5BCE56KB5B no brush numbers E-12 (permanent magnet motor) Model 26AE12JA Electrak motor number 163A9991P1 EGT-120, 140 Avco New Idea motor number 120448 brush number 121046 Snow Thrower Motor Model number 26AD42AA Electrak motor number 178B8170P1 Model number 26AD42CA uses motor # 5BCD49JB142A no brush numbers Rotary Tiller Model VV-100 Electrak motor 163B9956P1 E-20 tractor Electrak motor number 163B9996P1 EGT-200 Avco New Idea motor number 121087 E-8 tractor Electrak motor number 178B8216P1 EGT-80 Avco New Idea motor number 120122 brush number 121046 E-10 tractor Electrak motor number 178B8244P1 EGT-100 Avco New Idea motor number 120121 brush number 121046 Control Card ComponentsGarry East on the resistor card for E20s (2003-04-08)I have a new resistor card, with 4 large resisters, 3 each 20 ohm 10 watt and 1 each 10 ohm 20 watt + or - 10%, on it Part # 211A3162 GL R-6, on it is the varistor with Part # V36ZA80, looks like it has a GE A2 on it also. This card is mainly used on the E-20's. Comment by Markus Lorch (2004-09-16): www.mouser.com has the a Littlefuse varistor of type V36ZA80 with the following technical data: 32-40V, Max clamping voltage: 63V for $0.88 each Font LiftMarkus Lorch contributed (May 2004):For large frame, tested on E20 For info on how to replace the front lift motor with a GM window lift motor see http://markus.lorch.net/et/lift-motor.html John G. contributed: (2004-08-08): We set off to remove the motor, procedures follow: a) Deck
from under the tractor's front bumper, loosen the four outer nuts but don't remove them -pull the lift strap thru the fron bumper -loosen and remove the four nuts securing the lift motor brkt to the bumper (carefully, it's heavy!!) and pull it rearward and down (you may need to push the bumper ahead or even remove it depending on clearance) -the motor wires (three) will come down about 6" allowing enough room for you to remove them. The contacts are an upside down "U" shape: |-|, clockwise from left is: Red, Blue, Yellow, so facing the tractor, motor in operating orientation: Red on left, Blue on top, Yello on Right. Remove them. -The motor is free and it can be placed on a bench for inspection I had searched this site earlier, and the P/N forthe motor was listed as a Delcl #5045665, the motor I removed was Delco #5045631, and no results were returned with a google for that number. The replacement motor (scavenged from a rear lift) had the exact same number on it. Recall, this is a later production E-12 tractor. We found our motor to be in basically good clean condition, with no evidence of burned terminals, or excessive corrosion. The lower uncoated part of the gearcase did exibit some corrosion, but nothing significant. I re-installed the old motor without the bracket and performed some voltage and amperage tests (24V). It drew about 6A unloaded, and peaked at 13A when you switched directions abruptly. The motor sounded much better off the bracket and tractor than it ever did attached. I installed the "new" motor onto the bracket, and the old into the rear lift. The rear lift still works even with the old motor, so I was worried all this effort had been wasted. I completed the installation of the new motor and bracket onto the tractor, replaced the deck and set out to test the results. I was thrilled when the deck moved well and quickly with NO help from the springs, and the lift strap in SINGLE tension! I performed some data collection for the group after everything was hooked up again. This data is on fully charged batteries (36Vdc nominal) that have been sitting for over 10 days fully charged. The motor is wired for 24Vdc (the old motor would NOT lift on 18 at all), and I had forgotton I changed the voltage before I made my tests. Since the motor does not get even warm after lifing and dropping the deck 10 times, I feel I'm safe. New motor, 24Vdc, fully charged batteries (charger off), measure with an automotive clamp-on ammeter.
Master DisconnectMike Wallace contributed:You can get this same disconnect switch from JC Whitney for about $24 vs $27 from EV Parts. Shipping costs look about the same. As for the fuseable link, none of the "off brand" manual disconnects will have anything like it already attached. I believe that the ones Bill Gunn supplied had been modified, by him, to be able to still use the original fuseable link. Shouldn't be a big deal to add a piece of sheet Bakelite with a couple holes drilled in it to mount the link and use the switch's own terminals to hold it all in place. It's not the easiest thing to do, but the OEM disconnect switch can be taken apart and the contact surfaces cleaned to sorta "rebuild" it. Seems like I may have even put in a stronger spring in one some years back, but it's still a marginal unit. Main Traction MotorMarkus Lorch contributed (May 2004):Pictures from bench-testing an E20 motor with two small 6V batteries (one for the field, one for the armature) can be found here: http://markus.lorch.net/et/drive-motor-test/ The small four pole connector supplies power to the field (2 left poles, leftmost wire is red) and brings out the connections from an internal safety switch (wires marked "klixon"). BatteriesChris Zach on Lowest Safe Discharge Voltage, i.e. to what min voltage can we discharge our batteries without having to fear damage to the batteries (2004-06-21):Always check voltage while under load. That's when you can get a reasonable reading. If you're dropping below 10.5 volts under load, you are running the risk of reversing a cell. Once you go below 1.66 volts per cell, odd things start to happen in the battery. Current is still flowing through the battery, but that one cell that is "empty" doesn't have anything to give. Since it really is just two lead plates seperated by water, it will drop to 0 volts, then start "charging" backwards. This is cell reversal. It can happen rather quickly, and when it does your battery pack is now working to charge the reversed cell. Rate of charge depends on the current draw from the pack: If you're drawing 90amps from the pack then that cell will be charging at 90amps. This will cause a lot of heat to be generated in this cell. The electrolyte will bubble and vent, and things will get fun. You can reverse a cell easily; just draw a current thru a dead battery. The problem isn't reversing the cell so much as the charge rate. Also what you wind up with is a cell that will need to be "discharged" during charge. Thus while it's neighbors are "charging", it's "discharging" till it hits zero, then it charges and is now behind the other cells in the battery. Which leads to having the other cells at full charge, and this cell being "below full". Which will make it the first cell to die next time you drive, causing it to reverse earlier, etc. Battery Monitor by Chris ZachChis Zach (2004-06-13):The schematic is below. Thanks to Lee Hart for making such cool ascii art.
_________________________
| D1 | |
| 6.2v _|_/ green > R2
| zener //_\ __|\|__ > 1k
+__|__ | | |/| | >
12v ___ A |___| |___| B
- | | | red | |
| > |__|/|__| _|_/ D2
| R3 > R1 |\| //_\ 6.2v
| 47 > 1k | zener
|__/\/\___|_______________|
The key here is to use a red/green LED that comes in one package. At first we were fiddling with simple resistor ladders, but they were too boring and sensitive. At 12.4 volts, the voltages across the diodes are a perfect zero since the current between R1-D1 matches R2-D2. Now when the voltage goes above 12.4, current starts to flow thru the diode on the green side. When the voltage hits 14.7, the green LED is lit and you know you're overcharging. Likewise, when the voltage drops below 12.4, current starts to flow "backwards" thru the red LED. When the voltage hits 10.9 volts, the red LED lights on, and you know you're running low. It's really a simple circuit, but very clever. Normally all lights are off, and you know things are good. When you see a flicker of red, your eye picks up on it fast and you know something's wrong (ie: batteries are going low). See one RED led without the two others, and you have a battery imbalance issue to address with a hard overcharge. Likewise if you see two greens and one dark while charging you know something's up there as well. Circuit Breakers on Large Frame TractorsTom Coate wrote (2004-07-22):The Home Owner service manual has a short write-up under the heading "Circuit Breaker CB-3" which indicates that there are actually two protective devices on the E-20 motor. One, designated CB-3 on the diagrams, is an internal thermal switch. They say it trips "if the motor is overloaded for a long period of time" and that it auto-resets when cool. From the schematic, it is in series with the brake switch and should have the same electrical effect as stepping on the brake. CB-3 is wired on a 4-wire plug going into the motor along with the two field wires. [note: see motor-test pictures referenced above] Meanwhile CB-1 is the Klixon-like unit mounted on the outside of the motor. The book doesn't way much about it, but from what I can gather it is a typical thermal breaker. It will trip when the current passing through is high enough to heat it to the trip point - much as a breaker in a household circuit panel. I assume that mounting it on the motor is intended to give it some sensitivity to the motor temp also. It looks like it is wired to protect about everything except the lights and the PTO in the factory wiring. Steve S. found out(2004-07-23): On the topic of the Klixon by Texas Instruments Inc. breaker on the main motor: E20 seems to be a PDLA-105, which is a 105 amp breaker E12S hads CDLA-80, which must be an 80 amp device. Geoff Rich contributed some info on the naming of Klixon breakers (2004-07-23): P=precision (tighter specs on temperature derating of ultimate trip point) or C=normal (standard temperature derating of ultimate trip point) or S=square/rectangular case with normal derating D=sealed construction (has the metal backplate) or (no letter)=open (no backplate) L=large frame size (as used on traction motor in E12, E15/16, E20) or (no letter)=small frame size (used on mower motors, & for CB2 on upper control panel) A=automatic reset or M=manual reset (the big red button). Amperage follows the prefix letters. It looks like TI no longer lists the CLDA or CLA type breakers in the larger amperages; I guess we will now have to sub with the SLDA or PLDA instead. SLDA should fit, since the bolt holes are still ~2.4" OC. PLDA's have same exact case as the CLA's/CLDA's did, so they are drop-in replacements, but they might be more expensive due to their "precision" specs. I wouldn't recommend the "open construction" type (SLA or PLA), as water & dirt could get inside the breaker. Looking at the derating curve, I think I see why GE mounted these right on the motors. At higher temperatures, they trip at less than the rated amperage. If a motor's already hot, you probably don't want to make things worse by allowing the maximum permissible current to flow in the armature. As anyone who has ever done any wire sizing knows, it's all about keeping the temperature of the insulation material well below the point where it starts turning into a carbon resistor. (For varnish, I think it's about 150-200°C?) Charger CapacitorIf the charger (finish) voltage does not climb high enough to fully chargethe batteries (up to about 45V - can try by running the charger disconnected from the batteries and measuring its output voltage) then often the charger capacitor is suspected. The capacitor type is a 4.0uF capacitor with a voltage rating of 660V. A new capacitor, as well as many other parts, can be gotten from Harold Zimmerman (717-859-4234). Tim Humphrey posted on 2005-01-14 Alternatively, Newark Electronics has them, www.newarkinone.com pn 09J1905 or Toro pn 523410 E20 main shunt overheating problemsTom Pattee 2005-05-21:I came across a bulletin (#OPSB74-1), and thought of you E20 guys with hot shunts and stuttering relays. The bulletin is actually included in the Manuals section, under the GE Service Manuals/Models E12/E12M + Service Bulletins.pdf. I thought I'd retype it here for convenience, but if you want the figure #2, you're gonna need to go to that site. "It has been reported that some E20 tractors have developed overheated current sensing shunt plates (lower control panel). Indications are "chattering" of the FW relay or loss of the top three throttle speeds in the forward direction. In severely heated cases, the drive motor won't start in forward or reverse even though the controls can be heard to pick up in normal fashion. An examination of the shunt plate should be made for evidence of overheating. If "warping" or discoloration is evident, then replace the shunt. A new shunt kit is available, as shown in Figure 2. Use part number 247A7693G2 when ordering. This new kit assures a tighter, more reliable connection by using different lock washers and eliminating the use of the insulator threads for electrical connections. See Figure 2. Loose connections at time of assembly or loosening from vibration at the threaded phenolic spacers will generate heat when current flows through the shunt. For this reason it is imperaitve that, when replacing the shunt plate, the wires at the shunt be examined and wire terminals replaced if overheated." General TipsConversion between AWG and metric wire classification:http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/awg_e.html 3. AttachmentsMower Deck ReplacementTim Gulden (2004-06-09):electrictractor.com has customers who have used theirDeck only, with their GE Motors on GE Tractors. We also have customers who have used our Mower Deck complete. In either case our blades and blade tips must be used and it about doubles the amount of grass you can mow. The price of our 44" Heavy Duty Mower Deck is $1,245.00 U.S. Electric Tractor Corporation can be reached at +1 877-533-4333 Mower Deck - Side vs. Rear DischargeThomas Pattee (2005-04-12):I have one 42" rear- and one 42" side-discharge. The only differences are: 1) the cover plate on the rear discharge vs chute on side discharge, 2) the blade baffle on the rear discharge is oriented 180 degrees from the side discharge baffle and has two additional "tails" between the blades (at the intersection of the two arcs), and 3) the rear discharge has a rubber "projectile guard" covering the rear discharge opening. [To convert from rear to side discharge] You ought to be able to cut off the additional tails, flip the baffle around, and replace the cover plate with a 16 or 12-guage chute (that you fabricate on a metal brake). As for collecting the clippings in the center of a rectangle [when mowing in the by driving around a rectangle, always discharging toward the center], it's harder than it sounds. First, with each successive circuit around the yard, your discharge consists not only of the grass you just cut, but also that of all preceeding rows cut. By the 3rd or 4th pass, it's chucking quite a bit of grass. Also, when you get to about two rows out from the center, the clippings start to blow over the uncut center rows, and onto the grass you've already cut. You can rake this, but blowing didn't work very well for me--clippings got caught up on the grass blades. Mower Deck RollersLarry Elie wrote (2004-06-04):With Bill gone for now, I feel more comfortable giving part numbers and sources for parts that work well with the ET. I didn't want to do it when Bill was doing supply, but that's over. Today's part is the back deck roller. The Murray MU 92137 roller is the proper (2.5") diameter black (abs?) plastic roller and 6" long. To do a full size deck you need 3. The ET uses a 5/8" shaft in back, so the Murray needs to be reamed to 5/8" + 1/64" (41/64") to spin freely. They go for about $6 each at Ace Hardware as a special order. There are some 4" rollers that are the right inside diameter already, but you need 7 and a half of them (have to cut one) use more washers, and they are the same price each, so I pick $30 and some drilling over $48 any day of the week. There may be better fits out there as well. Mower MotorsMarkus Lorch based on numerous posts:To test if your deck motors are in good condition perform the following:
If you have the mower plugged in into the PTO outlet then this test should not work as the tractor bridges the wires coming from the deck and thus creates an electical short which in turn "consumes" all energy created by you when turning a blade. This feature stops the blades quickly when the mower deck is shut off. Mower Motors cutting out - things to checkDwight Hazen 2005-05-22:If you have deck motors tripping out the thermal circuit breaker all the time I would do some investigation as to why. Under nominal mowing tripping breakers should not happen.
Mower Motor Repair - Blade Clutch RemovalHarold Zimmermann 2004-04-16:When you look at the clutch body (blade mounting hub) you do not see the end of the motor shaft. The "staked" part you see is all part of the clutch body and does not disassemble. Thread a 5/16 NF bolt into the hole,put a bearing splitter under the clutch body,and utilize a wheel puller,putting the jaws on the bearing splitter and the forcing screw on the 5/16 bolt. You MUST press/force on the 5/16 bolt to get the clutch body off!!! There IS a key in the clutch body.It is a square type key. More info and a few pages from a service document are at http://www.elec-trak.com/forum/showthread.php?p=231#post231 Tiller NotesLarry Elie 2005-04-11:The weight box normally used as a counterbalance for the snow thrower makes a fine counterbalance for the tiller. It can actually be made heavier than the mower deck. It won't snap in two. The lift chain is to set the cut depth, the strap is only for lift. I think the manual lift (which I haven't seen in person) uses an adjustable chain length on the lift itself. To lift the tiller with an electric lift you MUST double back the strap like a block and tackle. Tiller tines, even when 'sharp' are VERY dull compared to mower blades. Go find a Troy-Built dealer and look at the tines. That is how sharp yours should be. Believe it or not, very sharp tines cut HARDER than slightly duller ones; there is more surface area in contact with the ground. Sharp tines also wear much faster. These are supposed to be 'self-sharpening' to some extent. The problem is dull tines plug with weeds easier. Plugging with weeds is my number 1 problem, and with the GE '4 tine' design, they are harder to clean out than on say a Troy-Built with a 2 tine design. The tiller is really a cultivation tool. Fresh sod can only be tilled if you scalp the weeds/turf first, and then dig so deep the thing won't take off on you driven by the tiller. You are better off with a plow first. LL is normal for slightly packed soil. For later cultivation in sandy soil (like I do with my strawberries) I can run in L at 3" depth, or even D1 at 1.5" depth. BTW, this is one area where a machine with more electrical speeds, an E15 or E20 shines over an E12; the lowest electrical speed is lower, and the highest electrical speed is higher so you can get a good fit to the soil. For cultivation, you can shift the tiller to one side on the toolbar as it is substantially narrower than the tractor. A simple stainless hose clamp will keep it from sliding. I made side guards too for tight cultivation. The tiller load should be no higher than your mower load. Either the tiller is plugged, too deep, or you have another problem. If you continue to till in the yellow for long periods, the thermal interlock will trip. It's on the side of the frame mount in the triangular shaped area. Wait a few minutes and press it in hard with a screwdriver. You will hear it snap in. There are two hitch settings on the axle. One is supposed to be for more aggressive tilling, but I choose the one with the most ground clearance. I made a rear toolbar and have mounted a planter behind on occasion. The thing becomes LONG. 4. OtherParts Price List from 1987Shannon Aldinger (2004-06-11):I posted a copy of a 1987 Price list, I hope it's usable as a parts number resource. It has columns for Wheel Horse, GE and New Idea parts numbers. Keep in mind the prices are over 15 years old, so they are practically useless. http://www.aldinger.us/elec-trak/1987_pricelist/ Paint for New IdeaGery Bauman wrote (2004-06-13):I thought I would let the list know AVCO still sells the NEW Idea orange paint. It is called Bittersweet - Spray can part # NI-015959. They also sell quarts. AVCO dealers can be found through AVCO's dealer locator service on the net. Rear Lift StrapGarry Freese wrote (2004-06-13):The 1" wide strap is 51" long and folded over by 3 1/2 " to make the loops on each end. The finished belt is 44" long. The measure are from a new lift strap that I got from Bill. On the tiller, it should have a piece of heavy PVC over the pin that is used as a pulley to lift the tiller. E20 Power Usage / Ammeter ReadingsMarkus Lorch contributed readings for his E20(2004-07-28):E20 Driving on level asphalt road: L, Speed 4 25 A L, Speed 8 35 A D1, Speed 4 35 A D1, Speed 8 90 A D2, Speed 4 50 A D2, Speed 8 100 A Mower motors (small, tall motors) with deck off ground, traction motor not engaged: 25A E20 with above deck, mowing on level ground : L, Speed 4 50 A (up to 75 A if there is an incline) L, Speed 8 80 A (up to 100 A on an incline) D1, Speed 4 75 A D1, Speed 8 120 A These numbers are "rough" as taken with a small analogue inductive meter intended to check automotive starter/alternator system. Measurements by Paul A. Cianciolo (ET + EV List Archive, 1999-10-31): I wired a 300 amp 50 mv shunt into my fully charged E-20 tractor today. I made some notes as to the current at the shunt as read in mv and compared them to the colorings on the meter. I did not mearsure the pack voltage but it was freshly charged. The pack is 6 trojan 220 amp hours approx 3 seasons of mowing and snow blowing on them. I am assuming that if I multiply mv X 6 I will get amps of current using this shunt. Please if I am wrong some one correct me 1) On the "low scale" 1/3 green showed up as 4 mv or 24 amps. This is the current consumed by the mower with it running but not cutting grass 2) On the "low scale" The line between the green and the yellow was 12.6 mv or 75 Amps 3) The line between the Yellow and the Red was 20.2 mv or 121.6 amps 4) The end of the Red on the meter scale was 26 mv or 156 amps 5) The meter pinned right to the end was 55 mv or 330 amps John G. contributed readings for his E12 (2004-08-09): Mower only (large motors) 18A in free air, 20A on ground cutting in "L". E12 Drive motor - (slight uphill grade, on pavement: "LL" = 13A all "speeds" "L" = 20A all speeds "D1" = 29A all speeds "D2" = 39A all speeds Mowing: drive current ~ 20-25A typical, surge 40A (uphill or turning), deck current 20A-40A depending on grass density. The Factory GE ammeter is very linear, with the Green/Yellow upper border representing about 60A (very voltage stable), and the Yellow/Red border is about 100A. During mowing, the ammeter would read ~45A, which was indeed, 2/3 of the upper GREEN scale. Under heavier loads, it would just reach the upper Green/Yellow border and register 60A on the meter. Being a digital meter, it was very difficult to coorilate the analog scale during rapid changes in load, but I found the factory scale to be very consistant over my 40 minutes of mowing with respect to the digital. Small Soneil charger experienceMarkus Lorch 2005-04-16I have about .5 acres to mow with my E20, this takes roughly about 65 Ah out of the batteries which I replenish with three Soneil 12V 3A chargers in about 20-24 hours. I only use my tractors about once a week for this much, all the other usages are less and the 1 day recharge is not a problem. I have two E20s, one with AGM batteries that cannot be charged safely with the built-in charger and thus need these smart chargers and one with Trojan T105s. I have turned the shut off voltage of each charger to about 14.4V (originally it is at 14.7V) which prevents the AGM batteries from charging. I usually connect the smart chargers right after I mow and leave them connected for several days, as they keep the batteries at 13.6-13.8V for a true float. Jim is right that the small 3A chargers can take a long time if they need to replenish a lot of energy in large golf-cart batteries. However, from personal experience I can say that the 3A model puts out enough to get Trojan T105 batteries to gas and equalize. If you intent to mow a large lot and need the tractor to mow again right the next day the small 3A chargers are not sufficient. However, Soneil also makes a 5A and a 7A version of the 12V charger (you need 3). Plus, all Soneil chargers are constant current chargers which means they charge at their full rated current until the battery is almost full then taper back. Basic transformer based chargers will start tapering back almost immediately (I think the standard ET charger doesn't put out more than a few Amperes once the batteries reach 14V, but it dumps a whole lot (around 20A) into them a the beginning of the charge) Soneil claims that their constant current charger equivalent in charging time to a standard transformer based charger with twice the rated output power. E.g. the 3A model soneil is equivalent to a 6A standard, or the 7A Soneil equivalent to a 14A standard. So in summary, I am very happy with my Soneil chargers (I guess you can tell from the length of this email) , here the advantages as I see them
Darryl McMahon 2005-04-17 I have the 36-volt, 4.5 amp Soneil charger on my ET 12S. 2 summers ago I thought my pack was done (it is at least 12 years old now). However, I put the Soneil on primarily to have a plug in and forget charger while I was away from it for a week or more at a time, and to see if the claims for this charger were valid. I used both chargers for a period of time, until the capacitor failed on the ET charger. I have noted 3 significant changes in using the 2 chargers.
I believe the 4.5 amp Soneil will take longer to charge a fully-discharged pack. This has not been a factor for me. The pack has always been fully charged overnight with the Soneil in my experience (based on dash gauge and voltmeter readings over 43 volts on full pack while Soneil is in a refresh cycle in the morning). The Soneil is a 3-stage charger, so it will pump out 4.5 amps continuously in the bulk charge stage, where the ET charger starts high, but tapers down quickly. It's been a while since I had an ammeter on the ET charger, but my recollection is 18 amps to start, which had dropped to 12 within an hour and down to 6 within 3 hours. (Again, this pack probably does not have full capacity of a new pack - but it will blow snow for an hour without problems - with batteries cold.) With the ET, I have to guess how long to set the timer for a charge based on age/capacity of the batteries, and how discharged I think the pack is. With the Soneil, no guess-work. Just plug it in and walk away. I am now planning to buy 12 of the 12-volt Soneil units as finish chargers for my next on-road EV project instead of using regulators with a bulk charger for finish charging. I will have the bulk charger as well for fast charging on the car. |
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